rep comments, and just general abuse via rep

[Connections]

ok today I received a rep comment form some gronk abusing me about a sale.

he left me some red rep I have no idea why, all I was doing was selling some domains.

I think when people leave red rep you should at least be able to see who it is.

Also whats up with people abusing other members in the sales area I see it happening a lot lately.

I pay $5 dollars to the site to sell something I don't expect to receive all these harsh comments about my sale,

I mean if your not interested in the sale why even leave a comment to start with.

These people are destroying the market place.

I would much rather sell my domains/sites on sites such as:

digital point/ site point/ ebay/ webmaster world/ dn forums/ name pros etc etc

because on these forums you don't have to deal with this kind of junk, I mean their are to many immature member son here who need to grow up.

[Selena]

Its against the marketplace rules to trash someone's thread anyhow.

And you used to be able to see who gave you rep, but for some reason it was removed, which I think was stupid.

[laars]

I know what ya mean. I got one red rep from a contest thread. I guess just because they didn't like what I made? And another that just said 'lame reason.' I think its ridiculous and if its going to continue, I'd rather not have the rep system.

[Connections]

I just want to see who is abusing me via this red rep comment then black list them lol.

I mean how cowardly is it to hide behind the privacy of rep and not show your face while abusing some one.

[rob]

it was meeeeeeeeeeee.

[Connections]

it was meeeeeeeeeeee.


how old are you 10?

I mean abusing sellers is a stupid thing to do, all business I might have thought sending the market places way will probly now be sent to other forums where you don't cop this kind of junk.

[rob]

how old are you 10?

I mean abusing sellers is a stupid thing to do, all business I might have thought sending the market places way will probly now be sent to other forums where you don't cop this kind of junk.
i thought your prices were crazy so instead of disrupting your thread, i just left ya a rep comment. :rockon:

[wce]

rep in general is stupid and should be taken away. I see these people who post a single free glitter and get 1000 rep things, give me a break. That means nothing. Then you have people red rep'ing people for no reason, it's stupid.

[Connections]

i thought your prices were crazy so instead of disrupting your thread, i just left ya a rep comment. :rockon:

the prices were fair and obviously you have no idea on domains becuase making a comment such as this was stupid

some of these domains have had offers in the past, some have traffic, some have revenue.

I was open to offers, if you have no interest in the sale at all why even open it.

Get a life mate

[Connections]

rep in general is stupid and should be taken away. I see these people who post a single free glitter and get 1000 rep things, give me a break. That means nothing. Then you have people red rep'ing people for no reason, it's stupid.


i know red repping for no reason like a sale thread,

or red repping with a smiley face WTF...

rep is pretty stupid....people take it way to seriously.

I mean i could amke oen dodgey graphic then give it out for free and get 100000000 rep boxes,

but if I actually do something to help the forum like post up info on setting up a myspace resource site or post some SEO help you get 1 rep.

this forum has really changed in the past it was once a place where people actually did positive talk about resource sites, because I mean this site is all about myspace resource site isn't it?

today it just seems to be spammed with glitter people, young kids and just immature idiots.

I dont think I will be posting much any more around here, other forums are way better I cant take doing business with 12 year old immature kids any more.

thanks.

[Greg-J]

I'm going to make it so people can see who repped them again and then I never want to see another rep thread again...

[letoutpuissant]

Praise the all holy master, Greg.

I want to see the 100 million red reps you have! ROFL

[crimsonangel]

I agree 100%. It is abuse of power! I bet if it wasn't anonymous, they wouldn't leave so many red rep's. Bunch of cowards!
Patty
:angel:

[Connections]

I'm going to make it so people can see who repped them again and then I never want to see another rep thread again...


this is not so much about rep its also in part about people acting immature on this forum,

you don't want to scare off sellers, because loss of sellers means loss of revenue.

[fapsian]

i thought your prices were crazy so instead of disrupting your thread, i just left ya a rep comment. :rockon:

That is NUTS!!!! I thought when you admitted that you did it, I was sure that you were you joking. You should get red repped just for that!

[layoutcentral]

Sorry to spam but I noticed alot of my old rep dissapeared does rep "expire" ?

[Melly]

Teehee, I was red repped for starting a thread asking how to become a good seller lol... I find it funny now because I am pretty sure I know who it was, but I can't see it now. If it was who I think it was, well oh well, lifes a ***** sometimes ;) Karma is a ***** as well (Humm new glitter idea) TEEHEE!!!

[Connections]

That is NUTS!!!! I thought when you admitted that you did it, I was sure that you were you joking. You should get red repped just for that!

rob: you are a joke; these domains aren't worth anything.


real nice comment....

[RKGraphics]

this is an ongoing issue with reps being abused and threads being trashed. its a never ending cycle. i think it was more abused when it became anonymous so hopefully this will clear that up.

and with the marketplace, even though its part of the rules, if someone is trashing your thread, get a mod to clean it up and i think that person/s get a warning for it. not too sure.

[minnseoelite]

the marketplace is your paid thread so if there is stuff on your sales thread you don't want just ask and it will be removed regardless of whats being said in the posts. this is the one area of the forum where you as members get to say what can and cannot be posted on your threads

[Connections]

issue has been addressed,

Rob don't worry I wont be filling your account with RED rep I don't even care that much, I just don't think it was a wise move to even post such a comment.

thread can now be closed.

thanks

[PGZ]

i thought your prices were crazy so instead of disrupting your thread, i just left ya a rep comment. :rockon:

Why didnt you just PM him ?? Whats rep got to do with a price someone wants to charge for something ??

Here let me give you some just because.....Enjoy..

[omen]

Haha, I agree with connections. DP, SP, DNF, all better places to be.. this place is just full of *****ing and random stuff not about myspace resource sites... It used to be so much better

[Dale]

i got red rep (and i know who did it now) because I used the r o f l smiley on a thread, i know i use it alot, but w/e. i quit using it in hopes that *someone* will quit leaving me red.

[minnseoelite]

Haha, I agree with connections. DP, SP, DNF, all better places to be.. this place is just full of *****ing and random stuff not about myspace resource sites... It used to be so much better


then go to one of those forums...its not like msp is going to stop spinning cause your gone

[RKGraphics]

Haha, I agree with connections. DP, SP, DNF, all better places to be.. this place is just full of *****ing and random stuff not about myspace resource sites... It used to be so much better

ok. im going to open my big mouth.

if it's not one thing it's another. too many kids, too many abusing reps, too many random discussions....too many this, too many that....what's going to make you happy??

this is an effin forum. people post things. they post it per the forum topics. so stay out of the thread if you dont like it.

[Greg-J]

then go to one of those forums...its not like msp is going to stop spinning cause your gone
Seconded.


MSP is growing. It's what forums do and unfortunately I can't stop it. Communities define themselves. Unless you're going to make suggestions (which everyone knows I take into consideration) about how to make it better, don't complain.

[Connections]

Haha, I agree with connections. DP, SP, DNF, all better places to be.. this place is just full of *****ing and random stuff not about myspace resource sites... It used to be so much better


true, this place usto be the best place on the net to get quality information about myspace sites and building sites in general, I have really helped out this site posting up some good resources and ive seen others doing it but lately its turned into a place for spam and not so much quality information any more.

Lately its all been about graphics and just random *****ing over nothing at all, then when some sales pop up its just all the same stuff over and over, even some of the new sales people totally suck remember JOEY what a "quality" member...really helps the overall feeling of this forum.

Rob I agree some of my prices are high, but whats the point of a sale? you start high then lower, some of the domains I was selling I have been offered various amounts for, some have traffic, some have revenue eg: $30 a month and I was asking $169, dude I really think you need a reality check...If you want to have a ***** just send me a pm man I would have replied to you in a nice fashion I mean if you see some one doing something wrong just pm them and have a chat dont fill them with abusive comments and red rep.

the domains are not junk I mean if I was selling XFWSEW1321323.com and asking a crazy amount that would be junk, but I am selling some good keywords, prices will go lower soon..

thanks

[Dale]

i think its bs how people are always like " i cant stand these kids on here" etc. im starting to think that us "kids" are acting more mature than alot of adults on here. it's ridiculious how people say we're immature, then go starting internet fights with people and red repping for no reason.

[omen]

It's not even that big a deal, it's rep seriously. In life you learn, your not going to get along with everyone, and theres going to be *****ing but seriously and you'll get over it and not let it bother you..., a red/green blob. That's what this is all about... what are you meant to use red rep for then?? if a post pisses you off, i reckon just red rep it..

[Connections]

ok. im going to open my big mouth.

if it's not one thing it's another. too many kids, too many abusing reps, too many random discussions....too many this, too many that....what's going to make you happy??

this is an effin forum. people post things. they post it per the forum topics. so stay out of the thread if you dont like it.

no I think the main aim of this forum is to provide information regarding my space sites,

this is not offtopic.com

I think people are going off the track of the niche of this forum.

Sure its a great place, its growing, but is it growing with the right members?

do you want abusive members on the forum, do you ant 10 year old kids who sell products and abuse you?

too many immature members are coming in and all the old schoolers are moving out, MR GEEK, fryman etc etc more will follow..

then these guys will take their quality resources and knowledge to other places and then you will be stuck with a forum full of 10 year old.

I am not trying to put down this forum, I just don't know if its taking the right path with its member base, thats all.

[RKGraphics]

can we all kiss and make up? :winkiss:

i think the quality designers are all hard at work on customs honestly.
and i think you can still get great advice and quality info. i have had a lot of help from lots of great people and even recently.

[minnseoelite]

can we all kiss and make up? :winkiss:

i think the quality designers are all hard at work on customs honestly.
and i think you can still get great advice and quality info. i have had a lot of help from lots of great people and even recently.


agreed :winkiss: lol

:cheers: all

[Dale]

yeah, old schoolers are moving out, but thats life for ya. people come and people go. if people leave because teenagers are joining, then that's their choice. noone is saying "get off msp". I have found myspacepros to be the most informal forum out there, I have made good friends here, and I have gotten tons of content. I have learned more about seo, etc. This is a great place, and it will remain a great place.

and im not kissing anyone :P

[Connections]

i think its bs how people are always like " i cant stand these kids on here" etc. im starting to think that us "kids" are acting more mature than alot of adults on here. it's ridiculious how people say we're immature, then go starting internet fights with people and red repping for no reason.


Ok I think I need to re fraze what I have posted,

I was more referring to people like joey, and more so people abusing you when you are trying to sell products telling you your products are ****, I mean who wants to pay to sell something and hear this.

Sure I think the graphics makers are good,
And their are a lot of great young kids doing good things around here.

but of late their seems to be a lot more bad people popping up...

I can really only remember TED HAT been the bad guy in the old days.

I just see a swing away from quality myspace info been posted and a move towards other things...this is all I was saying,

why cant people just have a in site into a subject without been told to move ot to other forums?

[RKGraphics]

im 29. i got quality info, quality graphics and had fun at the same time. hence the sub forums. what caused a lot of people to leave or just stop posting were those who decided they would go around and trash threads and abuse the rep system. and scam people.

some of the smartest people on here are young, and i would love to see the rest of the community stay. honestly, red repping me for asking for advice is rediculous. which is why ive been on a ***** path about it. but its done with. i dont care.

there are great topics going on, there are sub forums made just for BS and joking. i see quite a few helpful discussions going on too. when i post in the forum for myspace advice, thats what i get. when i post for marketing advice, thats what i get. when i post for random BS. thats what i get. i think the forum is fine with the exception of a few bad apples. sure, it could improve but it takes the community to do that right?

so what do you plan to do to change the forum direction?

[pimpyourdino]

Ok seriously stop dissing all the "kids/teens" honestly if we are here we are definitely very smart. Which is more of an accomplishment say a 13 yr old with a huge site or a 30 yr old with a huge site? I know that the internet wasn't around when alot of you were 10 or w/e but seriously the successful 10 yr olds are off to a much better start then you were at 10 I bet... just my opinion.

[omen]

It's not as though moderators don't abuse rep either as I can now see.... not that I care, I just find it amusing.. I red rep a mod for something worth red repping, and magically a few minutes later I have a red rep for something that isn't even worthy of a red rep in the least..

[RKGraphics]

oh. just an observation....the firesales was awesome, but it totally attracted a lot of unwanted newbies. seriously. the packs i got were rediculous, all from newbies. sorry, not to put any or all newbie's down, but we were just asking for that.

[Dale]

i hear ya now Jamie :P yeah, there have been some bad people coming in lately, and I remember back in January even when there was virtually no bad people here. But the forum is growing and noone can control the people who join here. Which kind of sucks. I think everything would get better though if everyone atleast tried to get along with eachother better, and less red rep wars would be nice too.

[Connections]

no offense but some young people usually don't know how to do business and certain ones should not be doing business at all because they don't understand the legal ramifications of using pay pal and other money transfer programs, because they are under 18 and they should nto be using these programs.

The thing is this is a demographic that is filled with people who thing they can do dodgey deals and get away with it, look at most of the bad sales gone wrong around here and look at the ages of the people doing them.

I know their are a large number of good under 18 kids buying and selling on the net but their is also a huge number of bad ones.

Also I see lately a lot of bad members from other not so good forums are popping up like wild fire of late, you really need to monitor these things if you want a feel of whats going on in your forum before its too late.

Sure this forum is great, but I am trying to help out and I feel like my thoughts are been heard by "deaf ears" so to say.

[RKGraphics]

no offense but young people usually don't know how to do business and certain ones should not be doing business at all because they don't understand the legal ramifications of using pay pal and other money transfer programs, because they are under 18 and they should nto be using these programs.

The thing is this is a demographic that is filled with people who thing they can do dodgey deals and get away with it, look at most of the bad sales gone wrong around here and look at the ages of the people doing them.

I know their are a large number of good under 18 kids buying and selling on the net but their is also a huge number of bad ones.

Also I see lately a lot of bad members from other not so good forums are popping up like wild fire of late, you really need to monitor these things if you want a feel of whats going on in your forum before its too late.

Sure this forum is great, but I am trying to help out and I feel like my thoughts are been heard by "deaf ears" so to say.

im listening.

or reading.

i think you make a lot of great points. and i hope you've seen my latest post in here because im with you in some aspects. and some other things i just dont think are as bad.

so like i asked before. we as a community can do something about it, not just the mods/admins.

and as posted in my "observation" post. i think we were just asking for some of the scammers to come in because of the firesales. it was an awesome deal grabbing idea but A LOT of crap from newbies.

[Jordan]

Forums are what the users make it.
Forums/message boards would be nowhere without the users.
They would be NOTHING without the users.

then these guys will take their quality resources and knowledge to other places and then you will be stuck with a forum full of 10 year old.

I am not trying to put down this forum, I just don't know if its taking the right path with its member base, thats all.
So you think it's right to discriminate against someone and 'deprive' them of something that they should have the right to experience, solely based on age?

certain ones should not be doing business at all because they don't understand the legal ramifications of using pay pal and other money transfer programs, because they are under 18 and they should nto be using these programs.
Yeah man but that's a complete stereotype. If you went ahead and told me I had no idea what I was doing when it came to sorting out payments online and the legal side of everything I would kick you :)

Jamie, I really do see where you're coming from but when people that are underage try to make a valid point it's like they get shot down completely because of their age and that's totally unfair... our thoughts are falling on deaf ears as well.

[minnseoelite]

I listening to you Jamie, and we do watch certain members closely if we find out they have a past of ripping people off. But until they mess up on here........


But I don't think age matters to much, I know a alot of younger members here that do pretty good conducting business and some older members here that couldn't complete a smooth transaction if their life depended on it

[pimpyourdino]

and it may be surprising to you but alot of the kid website owners have these people called lawyers and accountants.


"no legal or business experience" pshht yea right

[Jordan]

I share an attorney with my mother as I've had problems with certain legal issues online, I don't like being told that I don't have any idea what I'm doing when it comes to the legal side of things - when I say I'm serious, I'm serious. People who say teenagers can't do any damage due to their age are talking bull****.

But I don't think age matters to much, I know a alot of younger members here that do pretty good conducting business and some older members here that couldn't complete a smooth transaction if their life depended on it
Exactly. I don't pay attention to age unless someone is acting completely immaturely and people need to take that into account sometimes... there are 14 and 15 year olds on here that show more maturity than their elders.

[RKGraphics]

when it comes down to it. its not one age group, race, gender. its bad apples. you cant categorize and stereo type any one bad deal or bad thread because of age, race, gender, rich, poor. people are just people and we deal with the crappy ones and the good ones.

those who abuse and scam will feel the wrath of the msp community because go look at how everyone comes together (usually). yes, we have a lot of unwanted newbies...but if we are all as smart as we say we are, young or old, or my age....LOL...then we can check in to what they are selling, dont give money up front and use the system appropriately so others know who is good and who is bad.

its just up to you and how you want to handle situations, its not just any one person on here that makes it all bad or good. i think bad things happen and we're quick to point out that "they're young" or 'they're foreign" or whatever you want the excuse to be. but when it comes down to it, its all of us interacting with eachother and how we do it that makes this place what it is. so again. what do you plan on doing to change it. thats the question.

[Dale]

People underestimate us younger members, which doesnt help things. I hate being told I have no clue what I'm doing, it's rude and shows immaturity on the other person's part. I've been designing for over 3 1/2 years now, and I think I know what I'm doing. I've been working with websites for over 1 1/2 years now, and I think I've caught on pretty fast. I have some family members way older than me, coming to me for advise/help on building websites, HTML, etc. I have the most web knowledge out of my whole family, and that is a proven fact.

Without us teenagers, the world wide web would be completely different. Think of how much we've done over the years. Anyone who says that teenagers dont know s*** about the internet are the ones who don't know s***.

[Connections]

and it may be surprising to you but alot of the kid website owners have these people called lawyers and accountants.


"no legal or business experience" pshht yea right


Dude I think you need to look over the

* TOS of adsense regarding peopel under 18.

* the TOS of paypal regarding people under 18.

* the previous court cases where kids who are underage are in situation like this.

* why do you think they hold money in trust until people turn 18/21 ect,

I have studied business and marketing law "pimp my dino" I know what im talking about, I think its great young kids running business as their young entrepreneurs but I am just making the point if things go bad with deals the legal ramifications are not so good for under 18's and TOS violators.

Also I think you need to re read my posts, I state that most under age webmasters do good but their are a large percentage of bad ones and a large percentage of good ones in the demographic, these bad ones giev the good ones a bad rep for future business.

When I stated that the member base needs to be looked at I am not referring to under age kids I am referring to some new bad members that are coming in.

[omen]

Dude I think you need to look over the

* TOS of adsense regarding peopel under 18.

* the TOS of paypal regarding people under 18.

* the previous court cases where kids who are underage are in situation like this.

Also I think you need to re read my posts, I state that most under age webmasters do good but their are a large percentage of bad ones and a large percentage of good ones in the demographic, these bad ones giev the good ones a bad rep for future business.

When I stated that the member base needs to be looked at I am not referring to under age kids I am referring to some new bad members that are coming in.


Aye. you're not meant to have adsense, paypal if you're under 18 afaik

[Jordan]

Dude I think you need to look over the

* TOS of adsense regarding peopel under 18.

* the TOS of paypal regarding people under 18.

* the previous court cases where kids who are underage are in situation like this.
My account is under my father's name and Tax ID number which he's approved of, only difference is that I get the money. I don't see any illegalities in that.

[RKGraphics]

welp. my posts obviously are just rambles. i guess everybody here wants to just pick and point like usual, just like what was complained about.

just my only advice is to not only watch the newbies, but maybe take a look at yourself and how you are conducting yourself with others as well.

hope ya'll resolve this. ta ta.

[pimpyourdino]

Dude I think you need to look over the

* TOS of adsense regarding peopel under 18.

* the TOS of paypal regarding people under 18.

* the previous court cases where kids who are underage are in situation like this.

* why do you think they hold money in trush untill peoepl turn 18/21 ect,


As far as adsense goes if your under 18 have it under a parents name and your fine as long as they do th elegal crap and you design. If you put it in your name thats your own problem because google will find out. If its that huge of a business issue teens need to be emancipated to override any over 18 tos.

[Dale]

Paypal and Adsense are under my mom's name. she approved of it. Actually, the paypal I use is one she made for herself, then gave it to me. That's why whenever i send money/someone sends money, it shows up as her. I'm not doing anything illegal.

@ Tina, I read all your posts and completely agree with you. Don't worry, I never ignore your posts :P

[minnseoelite]

welp. my posts obviously are just rambles. i guess everybody here wants to just pick and point like usual, just like what was complained about.

just my only advice is to not only watch the newbies, but maybe take a look at yourself and how you are conducting yourself with others as well.

hope ya'll resolve this. ta ta.


agreed i think this will go on and on regardless of what is said. i think people are just having to much fun complaining about everyone else.

[pimpyourdino]

I don't see why paypal is such a large issue

you do not recieve money from paypal its just a way to transfer to your bank account.
a person doesnt need to claim paypal on taxes or any legal mumbo jumbo

[Connections]

I know I have a few points and people seem to miss the key words

"some" and "certain"

they all jump to the defensive side as soon as they think its "ALL" "younger webmasters" are posted up and miss the "some" and "certain" webmasters.

Please read statements before going crazy...

I am just pointing out that its not wise to use these accounts underage but its your own decision, I don't care what you do why should I,
I was just giving you guys some friendly advice and you all want to get angry.

[Dale]

I'm not angry, Jamie, I was just making some points. Again, I see everyone's points here and I agree with a lot of them. It's just there's a lot of younger people here who don't like being discriminated because some other people our age screw up. The thing is, most of us haven't screwed up big time, if we've been here for awhile and don't have a thread saying we suck, etc. then we arent bad people :P

[omen]

Paypal and Adsense are under my mom's name. she approved of it. Actually, the paypal I use is one she made for herself, then gave it to me. That's why whenever i send money/someone sends money, it shows up as her. I'm not doing anything illegal.

@ Tina, I read all your posts and completely agree with you. Don't worry, I never ignore your posts :P

Well yourself is doing the transaction with the other person, not your mum

[Connections]

Google didn't arbitrarily choose the number 18. If you are under 18, you cannot legally enter a binding contract. If you are under 18 and sign a contract it can be voided and the person or company on the other side is essentially SOL. For example, if you run up a bunch of credit card charges, those charges can be voided without you (or anyone) having to pay them, oh by pimp my dino asks why is it such of a big deal!!!!

This IS a law that really matters. So what can you do?

• There are lots of business opportunities that don't involve lying about your age. Be creative and find one of them.

• Get your parent or guardian to create the Adsense or PayPal account. They will be responsible and legally liable for what is done with the account, of course.

• In some states you can become legally emancipated from your parents/guardians and gain the right to sign contracts. That can be done by a judge, or, in some states, by marriage or joining the military. If that is what you want to do, do it legally.

So it seems if you are using you mum and dad to sign the contract it may be ok, but I knoe for a fact a lot don't, these are the people I am referring to in my argument not the other ones, but on ethical ground you guys are skating on thin ice, if you stuff up your parents are liable and they wont like that.

[Connections]

I'm not angry, Jamie, I was just making some points. Again, I see everyone's points here and I agree with a lot of them. It's just there's a lot of younger people here who don't like being discriminated because some other people our age screw up. The thing is, most of us haven't screwed up big time, if we've been here for awhile and don't have a thread saying we suck, etc. then we arent bad people :P


I know their still is not thread saying all under age people suck,

some people have just transformed this thread which was partly targeting only a small percentage of the younger demographic, and made it look like the WHOLE demographic has been "discriminated" against which is not the case.

[Dale]

Nooo. What I mean is when someone screws up, people go saying bad things about the other person in a thread. I didn't mean people post threads about us younger members :P


Well seth, if you have such a huge problem with me using my moms paypal, go report me. But you can't forget everyone else that does the same thing.

[Dale]

Anyway, back on subject. Anyone who goes red repping for no reason needs to be aware that we can all see who reps us now and we now know who is doing it :P

[Jordan]

^ totally a stupid question cos i'm an idiot and blind and stuff. but where the heck do we see who reps us LOL do we get a pm or what?

[Dale]

go to the control panel, and go to where you see the rep comments. greg made it so we can see it again :P

[Jordan]

Lmfao. I got bad rep for this post: http://myspacepros.com/forum/showthread.php?p=108736#post108736

Aw my first red rep, I'm so proud *tear*

But thanks for that dale, green rep for helping me when i was blind!

EDIT:// ohsnap i cant.
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Dale again."

LOL AS!

[Dale]

I've gotten 3 bad reps. I don't know why I got 2 of them :P Awe, thanks Jordan. You're welcome though. sorry you got red, ekk. I always hate the feeling of going and seeing red, but I end up laughing at it.

[Jordan]

^ lol it was just because they knew I was right, they just didn't want to admit it :)
but yeah I don't take much notice of it as it's usually for the stupidest reasons.

Repping for stupid reasons is just, well, stupid. k I'll leave this thread now :)

[Connections]

plz close and delete thread MAIN problee has been dealt with, rest of the posts are just not wanted.

thanks

[NYCBORN]

Red rep for everyone 7 pages at 4 a.m u guys made me lose sleep :)